2 years 3 months.... finally a change in attitude by the alien

[Jim257]

I got the speech Nov. 9th, 2007. D was final Aug. 25th 2008.
Since the speech my alien has treated me as though I was the one who lied, cheated and destroyed our wonderful family. She has refused or has been unable to look at me even when talking to me. She has had a condescending and resentful tone to her voice on the rare occasion that we have had to speak to each other. She has shown no signs whatsoever that she has doubted any decisions she has made. No hoovering.... nothing. Nothing but a spiteful and hateful attitude toward me.
For the past couple of weeks there has been a small but very noticeable change in the way she acts toward me.
Her tone now is not only nice but it seems she has put extra effort into sounding pleasant when she speaks to me. She even VERY PLEASENTLY invited me into her town home when I went to pick up the boys last weekend. She has never done that before. If the weather was bad she would just open the door and walk away leaving it open for me to enter. This time the weather wasn't bad at all and she asked me to come in. 
She still hasn't initiated a conversation but when I say something to her it's like she lights up and wants to talk to me.
I know on paper these are very minor things but compared to what I have dealt with for the past couple of years this is a huge change in attitude by her.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to figure out why she is acting this way and I am certainly not reading anything in to it. I just thought that some of you guys might be interested in the change in my sitch and the time line for you new guys. It may turn out to be nothing. I have been detached and act totally indifferent to her and will continue to do so.

Jim

[trying222]

well jim old friend - I don't think there is anything wrong with having a civil relationship with our exes.  i know you have small children with her, and that makes perfect sense.  Yes, we will always be the ones that "didn't want" what happened - but like you I would assume, i don't care that people know that.  i simply don't.

So, it sounds like you are taking this the right way - maybe as a step that you two don't have to have a contentious relationship - but can at least be - what is the word - friendly?

My ex has never been in my home.  i will go out on a limb and say - it will never happen.  She is angry, she did/does blame for her unhappiness, and I am fine not communicating with her.

But I wish we could have what you seem to be moving toward.  Why not, right?

Great to hear your story.  So - you are good?  Any ladies in your life?

T22

[Bystander]

Trying, I am waiting to be the one that says, "I told you so."

She won't be this way forever.

Look at my SIL ... although she's still being manipulative and vindictive (and is still "in love with" the OM), she finally apologized to my brother last week, as I mentioned in a separate thread.
It has been nearly 2 years since the affair began.

If my SIL can apologize, your W will someday too, Trying.
It might not be 2010 ... it might not be 2011 ... it might be just before the apocolypse in 2012 (    ) but that day WILL come.

In the "Private Lies" book by Dr. Frank Pittman, he explains how, at some point, the affair partners have to "reconcile" their new life with their old life. To find some way to "integrate" the two. (Again, look up the theory of "cognitive dissonance.") I am seeing aspects of this with both my SIL and her OM (remember, he was an acquaintance before he ran off with my SIL).

THEY CANNOT RUN FOREVER.
Not even YOUR W, Trying. 

[trying222]

you make me laugh Bystander.  When my strong, high earning, Norwegian, ex wife comes to me and makes anything even CLOSE to an apology -

I am sending you:

1.  one dozen roses
2. A case of Opus One Cabernet
3. A Macy's gift card for $500.00.
4. 25 power ball tickets
5. A subscription to the jelly of the month club - the gift that keeps giving all year long!

But it's OK.  I do, honestly, really, for real, want her to have a good life.  I am not bitter - angry or resentful.  Life is too short for that junk.

t22

[Bystander]

I know, I know, Trying ... it seems unlikely.

But what would your wager have been, say, in 2006, about the likelihood of your fun-loving, normal, beautiful wife doing a virtual 180 and running off with another guy?

See?

I'll take that bet.

It will just take me a while to collect. 
But I *will* be collecting.
Trust me.

[trying222]

i would have bet you $100,000.00 that it would never happen.  Touche.

But Bystander - you aren't collecting on this one!  I'll take a Stella Artois when you feel enough time has passed.....


TTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTtt22

[angel]

All of the MLCers eventually will crumble. 

The facade they put up when they turn into a love-struck teen eventually erodes.  From all of the cases I've seen, from friends or friends of friends, the madness is not permanent.  Given.

Jim, you are seeing a crack forming in the facade, as did Bystander recently.  Chono saw it this last summer.  I saw bits and pieces of cracks forming, then being repaired, and then reforming over 8 months (and although I have been religiously following NC, there are very subtle hints that these cracks are still there and getting wider).  Sim, feelingmn, ART, and bb (sorry if I missed anyone) are in recon. Even the Pitt/Jolie marriage is a good example (that took 5 years).   T22, regardless of how stubborn she is, how happy she appears, or how much she has "changed", a crack will be forming sooner or later. And like a dike giving way, the one crack will combine with another and then another.  Given. Hit a wall, crash and burn, and want to come back. 

[chono3]

I'm in this now 2 years. The Ex came on strong in July 09 and I got the entire I love you, miss you, am in love with you business. She told me that she had screwed up, ruined everything and made a mess. Sounds promising right? It did to me. However 2 weeks later we were back to everything being my fault. She stated that if we got back together "it would be worse than before" because I would hold the affair over her head. I simply stated that I would expect her to own and take responsibility for her actions. Clearly that was something she wasn't willing to do and that was something I wasn't willing to do without.

So I don't know what a second chance looks like. If the July encounter was a second chance it was pretty damn dicey. She called me in Oct 09 3 times and left two messages. I didn't answer or return her calls. She sent a text message Christmas and in January. Reading between the lines it was a clear indication that I'm on her mind occasionally and that she reaches out once in a while. The bottom line is that none of this has gone anywhere and she is married to the OM. My gut feeling is that she will rock and roll along like that for many years albeit with regrets. Her image is all important to her and admitting a screwup of this magnitude to the world is beyond her capability.

Furthermore, there would have to be a stunning transformation in me in order to facilitate a reconciliation. I can't envision recouping the feelings I once had for her. I love her but it is no longer a romantic love. I don't know if this is normal or not but it is how I feel. For instance, the thought of ever sleeping with her again is repulsive. My Ex is an absolute knock out but even when I saw her in July I was no longer physically attracted to her. The emotional component was there but really faded when she pulled the Charlie Brown/Lucy football takeaway stunt.

I don't know how people reconcile after this stuff. My hat is off to them but to tell the truth I rarely think of my Ex at all now. When I do it usually still pisses me off. What happened in July was the real clincher for me.

[crushed]

Hi Jim,

It sounds like your Ex may be coming to her senses.  You are right, however, to not read too much into it.  My experience is that if the MLCer is doing something/anything - it is almost always to make THEM feel better and not the LBS.  But MLC doesn't last forever and although you may not be seeing the beginning of the end, perhaps you are seeing the end of the beginning (sorry Winston).

It seems that T22, PGH and I have the real holdouts here on PP.  I haven't been on the receiving end of a good word from my Ex in 2.5 years and she is consistently hateful toward me yet refuses to even so much as give a glimpse to anyone (especially me) that she has done anything wrong.  She puts on quite a front and maybe it makes it easier that way because it keeps me moving forward, away from her as opposed to the yoyo ride that Angel has been on. 

Life sure is strange.  In 2006, no one would have ever convinced me that my Ex was capable of doing the things that she has done and I trusted her with my life without question.  Now, I wouldn't trust my Ex to give me the time of day and I really can't bring myself to believe a word that comes out of her mouth.  I suppose the, for me, the apocalypse occurred in 2007 and I can't imagine the one in 2012 to be much worse.

Crushed

[Hurtman]

Crushed,

You can add my name to the list of hold outs.  2.5 years and not the slightest hint of remorse or regret on her part. 

As I have posted here before, my Ex is following the example of her mother.  Her mother was way too stubborn to ever admit she messed up in her marriage, and lived a miserable life until the day she died.  I fear my Ex will repeat this script.  The young Padawan learned well from the MLC Jedi master.

Like T22 says, though, I don't wish the life of misery on her.  I can be "friendly", but I will never be her friend.  If it wasn't for the kids, most likely we would never speak again......ever.

[angel]

away from her as opposed to the yoyo ride that Angel has been on.  

It's not only me, it's my kids as well.  The yoyo ride is an understatement.

Let me relate what happened recently:  She moved out on a Thursday.  The following Tuesday she moved out all of her furniture.  I stayed home from work while this was going on.  I called her a bunch of names on the way out, I was very angry, and even told her I didn't love her anymore.

Two days later on Thursday night, she told me she was sorry, that she was regretful, that she made a huge mistake, that she wanted to go to counseling with me, that she would never be happy without me and the girls, that she knows in her heart of hearts that we were meant to be together and to be a family, that our family is the only thing that matters to her, that she wants to make it up to me and everyone else no matter how long it takes, that all she wants to be a wife and a full time mother, that the OM means nothing...etc.  All the while tears were streaming out of her eyes. I told her I would think about it.  In leaving, she gave me a hug and thanked me for listening, a long hug that lasted a minute or so, and her tears were getting my coat wet.

I texted her the next morning not to make plans for tonight, because I wanted to discuss this some more.  She told me she was breaking up with the OM and needed to complete that before we talked again.

Guess what?  Saturday she was back to the alien.  

Sunday, I was on my way to a business trip, and she called and told me she was going to see a psychiatrist and try to figure out what was wrong with her--that she recognized she has a problem.  

That was three weeks ago.  I don't think she has made an appointment yet.  

I haven't initiated a phone call to her since.  A few texts related to upcoming spring break and the girls' schedules, that's it. She drops the kids off in the driveway and leaves.  I don't go out to the driveway and talk to her anymore.

I went to IC last Thursday...she basically told me I was good to go and to keep doing what I was doing--she was encouraged that I told her about how I want to do things for myself, talked about boundaries, focusing on what I can control, etc.  I went in there well-schooled from the PP forum.

A couple of hoovering items recently--she made sure to give me some cookies she made, and  likes to snag me on the phone when she calls the girls.

So what's my point here?  

1.  If you have an unfriendly alien, it does make detachment much much easier.
2.  If you have a hoovering alien, your job of detachment is confounded by your dedication to your family.  
3.  My alien is sort of like chono's, a specialist at the Charlie/Lucy trick.  I really don't think it is pre-meditated--i.e. manipulation--I used to, but not any more.  I think it is the real person that comes out of the fog, only to swiftly retreat. When my X was telling me those things, I saw AND FELT the real her. The retreat is motivated by the OM narcotic.  
4.  When I hear stories like Jim's, chono's, an Bystander's alien SIL, it tells me that the real person, the person you knew and loved, is still inside that shell.  But the depression, the confusion, the hormones, the (fill in the blank) clouds that real person out.  But IMO the real person will emerge from the fog, eventually.   

You guys that have the stone cold aliens with no heart (T22, Found, etc) you will be vindicated one day. But you can't live waiting for that day.

[locksmith4you]

I'm in this now 2 years. The Ex came on strong in July 09 and I got the entire I love you, miss you, am in love with you business. She told me that she had screwed up, ruined everything and made a mess. Sounds promising right? It did to me. However 2 weeks later we were back to everything being my fault. She stated that if we got back together "it would be worse than before" because I would hold the affair over her head. I simply stated that I would expect her to own and take responsibility for her actions. Clearly that was something she wasn't willing to do and that was something I wasn't willing to do without.

So I don't know what a second chance looks like. If the July encounter was a second chance it was pretty damn dicey. She called me in Oct 09 3 times and left two messages. I didn't answer or return her calls. She sent a text message Christmas and in January. Reading between the lines it was a clear indication that I'm on her mind occasionally and that she reaches out once in a while. The bottom line is that none of this has gone anywhere and she is married to the OM. My gut feeling is that she will rock and roll along like that for many years albeit with regrets. Her image is all important to her and admitting a screwup of this magnitude to the world is beyond her capability.

Furthermore, there would have to be a stunning transformation in me in order to facilitate a reconciliation. I can't envision recouping the feelings I once had for her. I love her but it is no longer a romantic love. I don't know if this is normal or not but it is how I feel. For instance, the thought of ever sleeping with her again is repulsive. My Ex is an absolute knock out but even when I saw her in July I was no longer physically attracted to her. The emotional component was there but really faded when she pulled the Charlie Brown/Lucy football takeaway stunt.

I don't know how people reconcile after this stuff. My hat is off to them but to tell the truth I rarely think of my Ex at all now. When I do it usually still pisses me off. What happened in July was the real clincher for me.


I totally aggree with you chrono, I still to this day cannot figure out why people would ever recon, even friends. WHY?

[angel]

I totally aggree with you chrono, I still to this day cannot figure out why people would ever recon, even friends. WHY?

That's easy for me to answer: 

I don't want to be a part time dad. I don't want my kids growing up under two roofs with the potential for a step dad.  I want my kids to go to college, and to have a good standard of life...to be able to provide for them financially. I love my family. That would be my motivation to recon, and do all of the requisite forgiveness and counseling to enable that.

[locksmith4you]

Well Angel, You are entitled to your opinion.
 
But for me the destruction was to costly, the trust would never be there. As you have read so many times on this board, it is not like the chicken pox, you get it once and then that is is.  Trust is a 2 way street. I for one would never trust the NPD, she probably always was but hey as they say. Love is blind. I loved her once, trusted her with all my heart. Was set up for the big fall.
 I could never see myself ever trusting her again this includes friendship.

Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me. I am nobody's fool.
And for the record, My S-12 is coping with it pretty good, He wishes that I could have a normal conversation with the X, but as I told him. NO way No how. Sorry but I don't feel like spending another night in jail or even worse, having my son put on stand again and forced to lie for his mom to justify her lies and crazy actions.

I now know how low she is willing to go for her selfishness, so no way BRO.

Hell will have to freeze over before ever trusting her again. N/C works best for all involved. Except when it comes to my son's well being. then that will be the exception to the rule.

Life is too short to deal with the likes of a POS like that!!!

[Bystander]

Another motto of mine: "Never say never" !!

Angel got through the tornado part pretty well (?), getting the divorce over quickly.
Locksmith got dragged to hell & back.
As we've said to guys on here, Get through this with as few wounds as possible ... if reconciliation IS in your future, it makes it much more "likely" (FROM YOUR END!!!!! It is always up to YOU whether the MLCer gets a second chance, although she has to be the one to bring the idea to you.)

Believe me, I have no illusions that my SIL's outreach to my brother last week was ANYTHING resembling a second chance. But it was nice for HIM to finally hear some remorse from HER. (Same for you, Crushed ... it didn't mean it was over with OM, but you KNOW the real her is in there somewhere and that she DOES feel bad for what she's done, and know she was wrong.)

All of this does take time. The Pitt/Jolie thing is a perfect example. Five years & 3 kids later, Brad is apparently expressing some regrets. Now, it might take ANOTHER couple of years for him to actually split from Angelina ... but did you see what the tabloids are all reporting? HE WANTS TO GIVE IT ANOTHER TRY WITH JENNIFER ANISTON! There is always an element of truth in every tabloid story. 

Look, guys ... you may never end up with your W again (and that will likely be YOUR choice, in the end), but I believe MANY of the men on here will get SOMETHING ... some acknowledgement that it wasn't THEM or THEIR FAULT ... (we know it's true, but until you hear it from the horse's mouth, sometimes it's hard to believe) ... which can bring peace of mind and maybe ... closure.

Give it time. Certainly 2-3 years is NOT enough time.