Bystander's Words of Wisdom

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What happened to the 'Tools and Perspective' thread?  I can't find it any more.  No matter.  We have Bystander.  Who can say it any better than she?  Plus she is smokin' hot    So, let's start a "Best of" thread with her pearls of wisdom.  If you want to contribute, click on Bystander's name, then click 'Show the last posts of this person', find a great post, and cut and paste over here.  No extraneous responses, please.  This is the Bystander channel.  I'll start:

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From 10/21/08:

Read the Midlife for Dummies information in the Men's forum.

Buy Christine's book.

Go back and read the threads (especially the men's forum).

Don't get discouraged. Take care of yourself.

While it's true that  "every case has a different ending," if your wife is going through midlife crisis, the beginning and the middle will be the same.

The beginning is where she detaches from you and the life she had ("I'm not in love with you," "I need time and space") and the middle is where she wrestles with her feelings. At this middle point, she will either freak out completely (affair, new friends, giving up things from her current life -- friends, family) eor she'll wrestle with it but stay largely around (in body, if not in spirit).

How you handle the beginning and the middle may largely impact the end ... but not always. Set boundaries for your wife ("if she cheats, SHE is moving out"). Don't move out of the house. Don't move out of the marital bedroom (but don't try to work on the relationship or the marriage unless she initiates it). Find activities to keep yourself occupied (and your kids too).

Keep the lines of communication open with her, but don't try to FIX her problems. They are her problems, not yours. It's not about you or the relationship -- it's about her trying to figure out who SHE is becoming.

Think of the midlife crisis as a second adolescence. She will rebel against you, who she sees as a parental/authority figure who is trying to keep her from having fun. Encourage her to explore her interests (but again, watch for signs that she is reaching out to other men). Give her attention, but don't expect much in return. Watch the finances. The woman in MLC often turns to "retail therapy" to feel better. Don't make the money about power and control -- if it starts to be an issue, encourage her to have her own "fun" account that she can do what she wants with, but don't let her go hog wild with the joint accounts or family savings.

Don't take it personally if she becomes a stranger to you. As pghobbsx says, this is her journey, not yours.

I can't promise you things will turn out the way that you want them to, but by understanding the process, I guarantee that your journey will be better than hers. Depression is often a component of the midlife crisis. Serotonin is a chemical in your brain that helps regulate mood. A therapist I know once used the analogy of a bucket to explain the role of serotonin and happiness. Your bucket has serotonin in it. When you're doing things you enjoy, your body produces more serotonin, and your bucket fills. But with depression, your bucket has a hole in it. No matter how many enjoyable things you do, your bucket is slowly draining. Without help (anti-depressants, usually, although behavioral therapy can also be effective -- not MARRIAGE THERAPY, but individual therapy), your bucket will eventually drain completely.

The stresses of life help empty the bucket too -- jobs, kids, challenging family relationships, even the daily stress of marriage. Usually, there is a trigger for the MLC woman (a death in the family, loss of a beloved pet, getting fired from a job). In those instances, the metaphorical bucket gets a big ol' crack in it, and serotonin just starts leaking out.

In an attempt to feel better, the woman will sometimes turn to the attention of another man (OM) for comfort. These "users and losers" as OnHoldAZ has put it, prey on the neediness of MLC women. (My sister-in-law, for example, has found a real doozy of one ... textbook ... chronically unemployed, criminal record, lives with his parents.) Left to her own devices, the MLC woman will throw herself into the new relationship, which makes her feel better, at first. But like all relationships, it requires effort to sustain. It is also not the answer to her problems, which lie inside of her.

Eventually (read other posts for ways to speed up the process  -- like contacting the OM wife, contacting a lawyer about separation, or kicking your wife out), the affair will burn itself out. At that point, the woman will USUALLY come back to you. This is a key turning point. If she comes back to you but doesn't face the MLC, the pattern will repeat itself. She may talk about divorce, but not file. [This part is too complex to address in a short post, but there is lots of good advice on here, and especially in Christine's book.]

This will not be a short process (may take 2-3 years to work through), nor will it be easy. You will make mistakes. Get back up and dust yourself off and keep moving forward.

I'll leave you with a couple of key tips:

• Don't get sucked into accepting blame for all the issues in the marriage. Marriage is tough, and it takes two people to work (and it takes two people NOT to work either).

• This is not about the marriage/relationship -- this is about HER. Trying to be a "better husband" and "FIX" all the things she says are wrong with you/the marriage will not solve the problem. Go ahead and DO the things you'd do as a better husband (especially as it relates to your house and children), but don't expect credit for them (and don't SEEK credit for doing them). Don't tell her you're working to be the man she wants you to be. Instead, just step up and do those things (dishes, laundry -- these are things she'll have little interest in at this point anyway) and stay out of her way.

• Cheating is never acceptable -- make this clear. If you're unhappy in a marriage, you have lots of other choices besides getting involved in a third party. If she does/has taken up with another man, she will try to make it "your fault" (you didn't spend enough time with me, you spent too much time at your job, etc.), but it's not. It's simply her justifying her actions to herself.

• Don't try to win over family and friends by "being right." They don't care. They also don't understand the MLC. One of my good friends has a husband in MLC and her parents keep telling her to "work harder" on her relationship. People who haven't been through this don't understand MLC. And they REALLY don't understand women in MLC. One of my biggest pet peeves about society is that when a man has a MLC, they don't blame the wife (usually), but when a woman has a MLC, they think the man must have cheated or done something to "cause" the woman to leave the marriage. I'm thinking of writing a book for the LBS (left behind spouse) to give to family and friends to help them understand the process and give them tips for supporting both the MLC woman or man and the LBS.

• Don't be surprised by the lying and indecisiveness that are the hallmarks of MLC. She will even lie about little things (even stupid things that are easily checked out). Don't be surprised if she starts acting in a way that is COMPLETELY contrary to what she has professed to believe in all her life. (The Christian woman who blasted her friend for cheating on her spouse and getting a divorce now doing the same thing.) Things will come out of her mouth that are completely unbelievable. Don't get sucked into the drama by trying to set her straight, or convince her what she's doing is wrong. Just set the boundaries and enforce them. (It's fine if you go out to the bar with your friends tonight. Just be home by 1 a.m. No drinking and driving. And if you cheat, you'd better be prepared to go live with the guy, because you're not living here.) It's no fun becoming the parent instead of the spouse, but [just like with teens], they will look to you to set boundaries for them. Like teens, they will rebel against the boundaries, and test you, but secretly be appreciative (usually).

• Take care of you. Exercise regularly -- at least twice a week. You will need it to keep your sanity. Take up a hobby you've always wanted to. Engage your children in new activities to keep them (and you) occupied. Be the husband and father you've always wanted to be -- but don't expect that to be enough, and don't expect to get noticed for it. In fact, she might even be resentful ("Why weren't you ALWAYS like this?"). Don't get sucked in.  Simply say, "Hey, I know you're going through some stuff right now, so I'm going to see if I can help out a little more around here."

• Encourage her to work on herself. Notice when she loses weight or changes her hairstyle or clothing (even if you don't like it). Support her interest in new hobbies (participate in them, if at all possible. There' nothing worse than sending a MLC woman out to engage in swing dancing alone. It's a recipe for disaster -- well, an affair, to be specific). Encourage her to get a complete physical, especially if she hasn't had one in a while. Know that a lot of the MLC crisis is related to getting older -- especially the WORRY about getting older, like dying. [Death of someone you know is a common MLC trigger.] Talk to her doctor ahead of time about your concern that she may be depressed. (The HIPAA privacy concerns ONLY impact her doctor sharing information about her with YOU without her consent; you can share your concerns about her with her doctor and not be in violation of HIPAA. Just say, "I'm concerned because she seems to be depressed lately -- losing interest in things she'd enjoyed before, crying a lot more often, affected quite a bit by the death of (person)." Express that you don't know if it's depression or a midlife crisis, but you'd appreciate if they'd check it out during her normal health screening. Anti-depressants aren't a perfect solution, but they can help dull the sexual urges she may be feeling, and help put a coating on the bottom of the metaphorical seratonin bucket that will keep more of the seratonin "in."

• Read this site often. Post your questions, concerns, situations, feelings. Know that you are not alone in this. I am just a Bystander, seeing my sister-in-law struggle with her MLC, and supporting another good friend as her husband goes through his MLC... but I have found lots of great strategies and advice to share with the left behind spouses. Be open to the advice -- even though it may run counter to what you think you should be doing, and even if you think your situation is "different."

We are on this journey with you ... even if it's a journey you never wanted to take.

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From 11/13/08:

The research that I have read suggests a reconciliation is sought by the cheating spouse at least 50% of the time -- if not more.

The success rate of reconciliation is low, however, because it often takes quite a bit of time for the abandoning spouse to "come back" and often so much damage is done in the meantime that the left-behind spouse doesn't WANT him/her back.

If you read the threads on here with any regularity, you see the pattern. Those newly abandoned are still mourning the loss of the relationship. Those in the throes of the spouse's MLC (or the "vortex") are beginning to see how calm and peaceful life is outside the tornado ... and have been damaged by the process enough (either through emotional damage, financial harm, or other) that they do not WANT their spouse back -- at least not the person that their spouse has become.

Yet, you hear (anecdotally) at least, of a number of individuals who remarry their spouses in due time. Not sure how many of those are MLC-related, but it is possible that a reconciliation could come farther down the line. I think those are more likely among spouses that share at least one child, because the likelihood of continuing contact is increased when a child is involved.

When there are no children, or the children are grown, those attachments are fewer ... which makes it easy for both partners to create a new life apart from the other.

Such is the case with my sister-in-law. She is thinking "escape, escape" at this point, but doesn't realize that she has at least another 15 years of contact with my brother before their youngest is out of high school. She is trying to create another life with the OM, but doesn't realize all the attachments to her previous life (job, family, kids) that will prevent her from truly "starting anew" -- and she can't run away from all of those attachments (or at least she's been unwilling to, at this point).

So those in the early stages of the MLC process -- it is likely that she will come back at some point ... but you may not want her back when that happens. (I know, it's hard to imagine that right now.) And when she DOES come back, it doesn't mean that everything was fixed. In reality, that is when the real work must begin.

[JoeP88]

the 10/21/08 post is something every newbie LBS should read, over an over.

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From 11/17/08:

I think it's important to talk to people who know both you and her, so you can confirm what is "reality" and what is MLC crap.

You can make a list of what the "reasons" were for your spouse's "unhappiness" and fact-check them with reality. My sister-in-law claimed that her her husband "traveled too much" for his job (we know she talked about that, because one of her friends said my brother "took trips often" -- almost equating it to a "vacation" which it was not). But when he was not travelling, he was "smothering her" by his physical presence.

She said she had been unhappy for "six years" but was reminded she had two children in that time -- and, from conversations with my mom, was talking of having another baby as recently as January.

Bull, it is easy to blame yourself for your shortcomings as a man, husband, and father -- but really, who is perfect? Marriage is hard work -- marriage with kids is even harder. Do we always give 110%? Nope. But when did imperfection become an excuse to bail?

I sense a common thread in your posts, Bull, that you are beating yourself up about things you might have done in your relationship. Were you perfect? I doubt it. Was she? Nope.

As a woman, I think we have some responsibility to SPEAK UP about things that bother us. Not make underhanded, snide comments; not to complain to our friends or our family members; not to run away when confronted with problems.

If I broke my leg, I wouldn't buy a scooter so I wouldn't have to walk on it anymore. I wouldn't pretend that it wasn't broken -- I'd get help. And I'd get a cast, so it could begin to heal.

For the people I know in MLC, they act like their leg isn't broken. Instead, if you point out to them, "Hey, there seems to be something wrong with your leg," they say, "No, you just need glasses. My leg is fine. The problem isn't with my leg -- it's your poor eyesight. You need to get that fixed."

Bull, you don't need new glasses. She really did break her leg. And it wasn't your fault, even if she says it was because you left the dining room chair sticking out from the table slightly and she tripped on it.

I can't make you see that it wasn't about you -- it was about her -- but you will come to realize that in time. I know, because we have examined all of my brother's "flaws" and fact-checked them all against reality. Sure, he could have done more, but she didn't need to find a new boyfriend either. And trust me, the OM has more flaws than you do ... and it really doesn't matter to her.

Her leg is still broken, but she's wearing rose-colored glasses for now.

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Re: The Kids

Gary: It might not be enough.

You might want to consider counseling for them.

At a minimum, I'd speak privately to each of their teachers and tell them that there are some problems at home, and that it is obviously having an effect on the children, and you'd appreciate the teacher keeping an extra eye/ear out for them.

You can also schedule special activities with the kids (individually) and talk with them. (The whole: Your mom and I love you very much, and I want you to be able to talk to both of us about how you feel...)

You can't protect them from this, but you don't have to watch them struggle with it either, without addressing it.

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2/17/09:

[In response to Wekin's post; my reply to WhiteWater is below this post:]

Yep, that's what I'm saying.

YES -- if there is an OM in the picture, there is little hope for the marriage/relationship RIGHT NOW.

I'll reiterate (especially for some of the new guys) some of the stuff that I've said before.

You may get divorced ... but that doesn't mean that it's COMPLETELY OVER.

If you look at your wife right now and say, "Wow, I don't even recognize this person," that's actually a GOOD THING! Because she is not going to be this way forever. She WILL (eventually) return to be someone closer to the person that you REMEMBER than the person she is NOW.

Those of you whose wives "fell in love with" their OM -- it will likely NOT last forever. That DOES NOT mean that she will come running back to you when she realizes that. She'll probably look for another OM (especially if SHE is the one that got dumped.) It's only when they start to examine their lives and return to "normal" (not the OLD her that you remember, but a NEW normal -- but MUCH closer to the woman you knew than the alien that she's been recently) that you will get your second chance.

So YES, move on ... but don't shut the door entirely. As Wekin has quoted often, "Don't row the boat so far out that she can't swim to it." But in that future time, she will also not BLAME YOU as much as you think she will for BONEHEADED things you do right now. (She will actually blame HERSELF much more at that point.) I know that's hard to accept, seeing as she's dredging up every little thing you've ever done over the past 10, 20, 30 years NOW ... but I promise, when she finally starts to see that it is HER (more than YOU), you'll get a free pass for some of your "crazy" behavior that came from dealing with her MLC.

At the same time, you don't have to go the route of telling her you'll be her friend forever. Just as she's making pronouncements about the past ("I never loved you" or "I fell out of love with you years ago, but stayed for the kids"), I wouldn't make pronouncements about the future. Because while she might be nice NOW, women in MLC are CRAZY and you can't predict how she's going to act tomorrow ... or WORSE, what your REACTION to that craziness will be.

Because think about it: Would you REALLY allow your friends to treat you like crap? It's OKAY to have boundaries. Because when she thinks you're her "friend" and starts telling you about her dating life, sex life, etc. -- do you REALLY want to torture yourself like that? Look, if there's an OM in the picture, you're REALLY better off making a clean break of it right now -- and that means NO CONTACT until the affair has run its course. That's to protect YOU. You may think that you're "getting along for the sake of the kids," but my bullsh!t meter is turned on, and you're really hoping that she'll continue to see you as the "good guy" (that we ALL know YOU ARE!) and that by reassuring her that you'll "always be here for her" that she'll change her mind.

Believe me, she WILL change her mind ... but it will have nothing to do with how NICE you are to her while she's off screwing another guy.

The BETTER strategy is to let her go do her thing ... but don't pretend that you UNDERSTAND why she is screwing up HER LIFE and YOURS (and your KID'S LIVES) ... but without your "support" and "understanding." Appeasement DOES NOT WORK with these women. They will take, and take, and take, and take, and take ... and then "take some more." And they will NOT RESPECT YOU for putting up with it.

Look, my brother reads this site. I'm going to post this on here, even though I know I probably shouldn't put it in writing.

My sister-in-law (his wife) was my best friend for the past 10 years. I was closer to her than I even was to my brother during this time. She was over at my house at least once a week; she was my matron of honor in my wedding. But even though I KNOW she will come around eventually (it will probably take another 2-3 years), she will NEVER be my best friend again. I haven't actually SAID this to my brother, although I'm sure he realizes it. But I also wasn't married to her for 15 years. He was.

I KNOW I will get another chance with her. She WILL be remorseful at some point down the road. I know enough about MLC to realize this. I also realize that she is ILL ... that she had the free will to make decisions, but that hormones and grief (triggers from several deaths a year ago at this time) led her down a path that she would have NEVER considered before.

I will be NICE to her at that point, but I will not be FRIENDS with her again.

She has done a TON of damage over the past year. It took about six months, but I believe my brother has now gotten to the point where it would be difficult for him to take her back, if his second chance came today. He talked of "moving on" for 2-3 months, until the SAYING became the FEELING. (It's about "acting as if" -- even if you don't yet FEEL it, SAY IT and ACT AS IF, and it will become easier.)

He HAS to move forward, to protect HIMSELF and that TINY part of his heart that still remembers who she USED to be and still cares for her (now more as the mother of his children than for the wife and lover she was). He STILL MAY decide to give her a second chance in the future ... but we won't know until the OM is out of the picture and she realizes what she's done.

YES, you must move on too. But be HONEST with yourself, and realize that what you had together was INCREDIBLY SPECIAL. The hurt that you are feeling today WILL fade with time. EVEN if you are divorced; even if she has moved out, it's not over yet.

But BE HONEST WITH YOURSELF. It's NORMAL to continue to have FEELINGS for her. But that doesn't mean that you CAN'T and SHOULDN'T MOVE ON with your life ... especially if the OM is still in the picture. (And if she says he's NOT, look for BEHAVIOR changes ... not just the words. Is she still secretive with her phone/e-mail; is she still bar-hopping; has she expressed any REMORSE?)

If she's still with the OM, RESERVE YOUR JUDGMENT ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT YOU WILL GIVE HER A SECOND CHANCE.
You don't have to make that decision right now. But live your life for YOU and YOUR KIDS right now. She's going to do what she's going to do.

(And since I try to limit my posts in the Men with Wives in Midlife forum to CRISIS situations only ... for Rob: It's not unusual for your wife to initiate sex during this time. It's actually a form of "Hoovering" -- to make sure they still have you TOO. It can be in response to a problem with the OM (a fight perhaps) or it can just be trying to meet one of her weird hormonal or emotional needs. Don't read into it too much ... but don't beat yourself up for it either. There are TONS of guys on here who would LOVE to have that opportunity.)

I hope that's somewhat clear and not TOO contradictory. Please feel free to post questions if I've made it MORE confusing.

[Bystander]

Thanks, Pex! I've had a lot to say ... that's for sure ... 

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From 1/2/09:

Here's the thing, Lost 94:

She doesn't think the problem is the marriage or the relationship ... she thinks the problem is YOU! And by you saying that you need to work on the relationship, she thinks you mean SHE isn't doing enough about the marriage and relationship.

Here's the thing. It does absolutely no good to work on the marriage and relationship when one person is in crisis. What is that adage about the sound of one hand clapping?

Here's the thing:
If there is an OM in the relationship (either you have proof of one or strongly suspect it), you let your boundaries be known -- no third parties in your relationship. She can go be with the OM, or you will file for divorce so that she is free to go date (which married people aren't supposed to do, unless it's each other).

If there is NOT an OM in the relationship, why are you talking about the marriage/relationship if you KNOW she's in crisis? That's like trying to talk to a person with cancer about how they'd get better if they'd just start thinking positively. I am all for thinking positively, but it absolutely doesn't cure cancer.

You are free to read books about relationships and avoid divorce, but trying to get her to "buy into it" at this point is futile ... unless, of course, it's HER idea. (By the way, marriage counseling when the wife is in crisis and particularly if there is an OM, is futile. FUTILE!) You are free to get individual counseling, but don't talk to HER about it, unless she asks.

YES, it absolutely is common that wives in MLC think their husbands are being manipulative if they try to work on the relationship. The reason is that the women think, "Well, why is he all of the sudden interested in working on our relationship NOW? He was never interested before." Well, duh, it's 'cause you're in crisis lady ... but I'm telling you, she doesn't see it that way because she is in the MIDDLE of the crisis and can't see the forest for the trees.

If your wife is in MLC (and if you've laid your situation out on here and gotten acknowledgment from others on here that it probably is), then FOLLOW THE ADVICE ON HERE AND DETACH!

Again, go back and re-read the definition of DETACH. It means avoiding getting sucked into her blame game. Why are you having discussions about you being manipulative? Because YOU likely brought up the subject of the marriage/relationship.

Some days I feel like beating my head against the wall because ALL the answers you are seeking are here on this forum (not just you, Lost94) and yet I see guys on here saying:
• My situation is different because my wife and I REALLY loved each other before this.
• My wife would NEVER screw up our financial affairs.
• My wife would NEVER do this to our kids. She has always said how damaging divorce and affairs are.
• My wife would NEVER have an affair.

Look, MLC is an illness. A sickness. A compulsion. It causes people to do things that they wouldn't have done before. Rewrite history. Act inappropriately. Be absolutely vile and mean to the one person who has cared for them most in this world.

STOP TAKING IT PERSONALLY!!!!!
Just get out of the way.

I'm telling you ... you're just setting yourself up for more hurt, confusion, sadness, anger, betrayal, etc. if you don't FOLLOW THE GUIDELINES OUTLINED HERE.

I'll reiterate them one more time.

If your wife is in crisis, realize that this is not about YOU. It's about HER.

If she has already taken up with an OM (or has moved out and is actively bar-hopping and cruising for an OM), you tell her, "Fine, you're free to live your life the way you choose, but you're not acting like you're married anymore and if there is an OM, or if you take up with an OM, I will file for divorce).

If there is no OM (or she's given up the OM -- 100%!) and claims she wants to work on the relationship, she does NOT actually want to WORK on the relationship. She just wants to feel "normal" again, even though she's still in crisis. Do NOT try to hard to "FIX" the relationship at this point -- let her initiate talk about the M/R, just LISTEN, and DETACH. Which means... focus on improving YOURSELF (which will make you more desirable ANYWAY), don't push intimacy (physical or emotional), but be available when SHE wants it, and just wait out this crisis.

Yes, out of every 100 cancer cases, there is ONE case that was miraculously cured by drinking pureed vegetable root or whatever ... but the majority of cases required a "textbook" type of treatment (i.e., radiation or chemotherapy or surgery).

Yes, yours may be the ONE MLC that didn't follow the prescribed course and you still made it through. But in the other 99 cases, if you'd followed the prescriptions on here, you'd be better off. (EVEN IF THE END RESULT WAS DIVORCE ... the equivalent of the "patient dying" in my cancer story, I guess.)

If you do what is prescribed EARLY ENOUGH in the MLC/ILYBIMILWY process, you may be able to stave off divorce. Even doing everything right, she may still choose divorce. She may even go through with it. But like I've said dozens of times on here, you DO know the woman your wife WAS and the woman she is NOW is not that woman. Is it not likely that when she is finished with her tornado, she will look MORE like the woman she USED to be than the alien she is now? And if that's the case, isn't it likely that she'll want to come back around to you one more time? If that's the case, DETACH NOW so you're not so emotionally burned up from the damage she'll inflict from engaging in you through this process that you can't stand her anymore.

I can keep saying the same thing over and over and over and over again ... as many times as I need to ... but it's VERY frustrating.

YOU KNOW WHAT YOU NEED TO DO.
START DOING IT.
THE STUFF YOU'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO DO -- STOP DOING IT!
IF YOU MAKE A MISTAKE, PICK YOURSELF UP & GO FORWARD (don't beat yourself up about it! Move on)

DETACH.
DETACH.
DETACH.
DETACH.

It's not about YOU. It's about HER.

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12/18/08:

I'm with WSky on this ... and again, my perspective is that of a Bystander ... not a woman in MLC, not a LBS.

For the men:

YES, you could have been a better husband. There is ALWAYS room for improvement.  Grin

YES, you could have reacted differently when your wife talked about how she was feeling. But remember, John Gray's book, "Men Are From Mars; Women Are From Venus" was a best-seller for a REASON! Men and women DO communicate differently. To that point, when Libby's husband said "fix it yourself," I don't think he was TRYING to be mean. He heard her saying, "I'm unhappy, but I don't know why/what to do." His response: "Do what you need to do [obviously, not an affair] to fix that." Ironically, he "got" what the message was ("It's not me, it's you") and had the right response -- she just didn't want it expressed THAT WAY.

We women like to talk about this stuff. Talking about it makes us feel better. Men hear the problem and want to fix it. The problem with MLC is that the man CAN'T fix it ... because it's something only she can work out herself. That's where the frustration is when she starts to feel the effects of MLC, but doesn't know what to do about it. She doesn't understand WHY she's feeling this way. The OM often just listens, listens, sympathizes, listens some more ... he doesn't try to fix it. That's why he's so appealing. He's nonconfrontational. He doesn't create new problems for her ... he just listens when she complains about the ones she already has.

YES, you need to do all the things that you should to keep your marriage vibrant, vital, and healthy. But it takes TWO people to do that. You BOTH have to make it a priority. But you can't change the rules halfway through. If her role is the caretaker and his is the breadwinner, she might find herself tired of being the caretaker, but unwilling to become the breadwinner. Or if she only works part-time to be the caretaker and the husband has been the breadwinner (no small challenge in today's economy!), she can't complain that he "works too much" if she's not willing to give up some of the material comforts that are the result of that.

What I see on here is that MOST of the guys' situations are that the wife has ALREADY given up on the marriage. By the time you get the ILYBINILWY speech, she's already in a relationship or has mentally checked out. HOWEVER, this is the first REAL crisis signal that the husband has gotten.

It's like the Titanic has hit the iceburg, is starting to take on water, and the captain says, "Hey, I'm getting off this boat." The passenger responds, "Why? We're having a good time!" The captain says, "Yes, but I'd rather be in this lifeboat here." The passenger starts looking around and notices that the lifeboats are filling (that's the woman's friends and families jumping ship). He looks around some more and sees the ship starting to go under. He says, "Wait! Let me in the lifeboat too!" The captain, already in the last lifeboat that is pulling away from the ship, says: "Sorry, it's too late. We've already pulled away." And down you go.

Now, it's POSSIBLE that she will turn the lifeboat around and come back to get you. But it's not over yet. You still have to ride out the frigid temperatures (how's that for a metaphor!?!) and dodge the other icebergs and wait for help to arrive.

Another option is that you grab a door or other floating object and jump off the boat just as it starts to go down. You float around for a while, slowly freezing to death. In the meantime, you can see the lifeboats in the distance, their lights bobbing around in the turbulent waters. You wonder if one of them will turn back for you.

Just as you're about frozen to death, the captain's lifeboat comes back. Seems they remembered you were pretty fun after all, or everyone else in the lifeboat was getting annoying. (My analogy is breaking down a bit here, but this is where the MLC spouse figures out that life might not be better without you after all.)

Maybe you'll still be floating there, with some life in you yet. Or maybe you'll have been picked up by a passing liner and are already wrapped in heavy wool blankets with a hot toddy in you.

* * * * * * * *

One last note for the men: DO NOT ASK WOMEN IN MLC TO EXPLAIN THIS PROCESS TO YOU. This is one of those things that can only be understood in hindsight, or by a third party. Thres is in the tornado; Lib's has spun down quite a bit.

It would be different if these women could go to their doctors, and the doctors would say, "I've run the tests. It's a midlife crisis. Take two of these pills [antidepressants would be nice] and call me in the morning."

But that just doesn't happen. So they muddle through themselves. Some of them recognize they are in crisis; the majority do not. Some of them read about MLC and see themselves; the majority do not.

I am not discounting the validity of Thres' opinion (she made that comment about being "attacked" for it) ... I am just saying, she can't see the forest for the trees right now. She may feel differently in the future.

Another note for men. Do not try to "fix" your wife's midlife crisis. She will NOT thank you for it.

DO NOT GIVE HER READING MATERIALS AND HOPE THAT SHE WILL "GET IT." DO NOT BUY HER CHRISTINE'S BOOK "BRING IT ON" OR THE ACCOMPANYING WORKBOOK AND EXPECT HER TO READ IT, THANK YOU, AND GO BACK TO LIFE AS YOU KNEW IT.

It's just not going to happen.

I will say it over and over again: It's NOT about you (at least not at this point). It's NOT about your relationship NOW (even if it started out that way, it's not about it now. I promise you. You could have been the perfect husband, and this still would have happened. If she's in crisis, she's in crisis. If she had gotten cancer and blamed you, would you still be accepting responsibility? If you were driving the car when a semi hit you and she broke both her legs, would she still blame you?)

Once you see the MLC, it's too late to work on the relationship. It's also TOO SOON to begin working on the relationship if she is still in MLC. That's why patience is the key.

Wekin is in a different place than most of the men on here. He's starting to come out the other side ... so some of his perspective is far ahead of where most men can apply it on here. My point is: For the men whose women are still in crisis, just float along ... even though it's uncomfortable, and it feels like you're freezing to death. Help will come ... it may just not be what you were expecting. (It may be the Coast Guard, and not the captain's lifeboat.) But either way, you will be saved.

[pexio]

Re:Does the anger subside:

Listen, I look at my sister-in-law and think to myself, "I can't even believe the woman she has become." I wonder if she will ever come back. But then I think about it -- just ONE YEAR AGO, she was 'normal.' So if she changed to become this person, why wouldn't she change back?

All of the men on here know that the life their wives are choosing ARE NOT better than the lives they gave up. To paraphrase feelingmn from another thread, "They are off the reservation." Well, the prodigal child DOES eventually come home.

As for the ability to "look normal" (i.e., not depressed), there is a low-grade form of depression called dysthymia (it's like "depression lite" or "chronic depression") that women in midlife seem to have similar symptoms to:

The symptoms of dysthymia are similar to those of major depression, though they tend to be less intense. In both conditions, a person can have a low or irritable mood, lack of interest in things most people find enjoyable, and a loss of energy (not all patients feel this effect). Appetite and weight can be increased or decreased. The person may suffer from insomnia or excessive sleeping He or she may have difficulty concentrating. The person may be indecisive and pessimistic and have a negative self-image. The symptoms can grow into a full blown episode of major depression. This situation is sometimes called "double depression"[2] because the intense episode exists with the usual feelings of low mood. People with dysthymia have a greater-than-average chance of developing major depression. While major depression often occurs in episodes, dysthymia is more constant, lasting for long periods, sometimes beginning in childhood. As a result a person with dysthymia tends to believe that depression is a part of his or her character. The person with dysthymia may not even think to talk about this depression with doctors, family members or friends. Dysthymia, like major depression, tends to run in families. It is two to three times more common in women than in men. Some sufferers describe being under chronic stress. When treating diagnosed individuals, it is often difficult to tell whether they are under unusually high environmental stress or if the dysthymia causes them to be more psychologically stressed in a standard environment.

If you've ever been treated for depression, you know that it feels like it will never end. That's kind of what it feels like for women in MLC. They think that the way they feel NOW is the way they will ALWAYS feel. That's why you'll hear a lot of the "always" and "never" talk from them.

But they FORGET the past ... that they have been happy. They will be happy again ... they just don't know how to get there from here. But YOU (the LBS) know that it is possible again.

That's why there is always the hope of reconciliation.

I'm telling you, the MAJORITY of men on here WILL get the chance at reconciliation. The PROBLEM for the MLC women is that in many cases, they have done SO MUCH DAMAGE that the LBS doesn't want them back at that point (the men haven't done enough detaching to realize that the venom isn't PERSONALLY directed at them; it's just a symptom of the MLC), or the LBS spouse has moved on and already has a new life (that doesn't include the MLC wife).

That's why detaching is so important FOR YOU, left-behind spouses. If you would ever want her back in the future, get out of her way NOW, because the more entangled you are at this point, the harder it will be for you to WANT her back in the future.

She wasn't this way 5 years ago ... she won't be the same 5 years from now.

It IS about the hormones and stress and midlife transition. Wait it out. But stay OUT of the tornado's path in the meantime!
That reminds me of the town of Greensburg, Kansas (Google it) that was virtually DESTROYED by a EF5 tornado in 2007. If you came through the town right after the storm, you'd NEVER believe that it would exist again. But they have rebuilt, and it's now a "green" city -- better than it was before.

If you survive this storm, you will get to rebuild. You may not have all of the same residents, but your town will be better than it was before (the friends that make it through will be your TRUE friends).

[DrummerN]

12/18/08:

DO NOT GIVE HER READING MATERIALS AND HOPE THAT SHE WILL "GET IT." DO NOT BUY HER CHRISTINE'S BOOK "BRING IT ON" OR THE ACCOMPANYING WORKBOOK AND EXPECT HER TO READ IT, THANK YOU, AND GO BACK TO LIFE AS YOU KNEW IT.

I can attest to this for sure!

I bought and gave "Bring it On" to her- she liked it UNTIL I made some comment about it- (of which I don't even remember) to which she denied being at all in MLC then left the book out where I could see then she didn't want or need it.

[pexio]

2/3/09:

Okay, first of all, a clarification. I get this one a lot.

When I say YOU WILL GET A SECOND CHANCE WITH YOUR WIVES AT SOME POINT, it does not mean:

• "She will be back to normal." A midlife crisis DOES change a woman, permanently -- just as going through the teenage years changes your children permanently. They are not the SAME person they were at 12, but they are a lot closer to the person you knew at 12 than the one that emerges at 13-19.

• There will be a reconciliation and you will both live happily ever after together. This is probably the biggest misconception. When I say that "you will get a second chance," it doesn't mean that you'll end up together again. What you'll see on here is that the deeper the MLC CRISIS , the more damage is usually done to the LBS. As the moderators on here have said from the very beginning, detaching is for YOU , not to rebuild the relationship. It's to help you SURVIVE during this time (thus the title of Christine's book SURVIVING Your Wife's Midlife Crisis).

However, if you are able to separate yourself emotionally (by that I mean "protect yourself emotionally") from the tornado she is in, you will be in a better position when she finally stops swirling. And they DO eventually stop swirling. The vast majority of them, anyway.

You don't see a lot of "success" stories on here, because most of the men on here come early in the crisis -- anywhere from "I just got the speech" to "my wife has been in this for 3 years now." Much beyond 2-3 years, most men have given up on their wives, recovered from the intense hurt their wives have brought on them, and moved on. Most of them (the ones that got divorced anyway), eventually find someone who isn't an alien and go on with their lives. When their wives DO finally stop swirling and come around, it's often TOO LATE FOR THEM (NOT too late for YOU).

You've probably talked to people who got a divorce and then regretted it -- even if they were the one that initiated it. That's these women. At some point, they become 50- and 60-year-old women. Maybe they will even marry again (some of them marry the OM, but it rarely lasts, although there are, of course, anecdotal cases of the two affair partners marrying and the marriage lasting 10-20 years.)

As I've said on here before, the WORST case scenario for men is the "romantic affair." That's when she falls in love with the OM. Those are the ones that take a couple of years to unravel, usually. (The "loverboss" scenario on here is a familiar one.)

In your particular situation, you've actually got a chance.
For one, as far as we know, it's still an EA, not a PA. (It helps that the guy is abroad.)
For another, you're still in the house, and neither of you has filed for divorce.

This is the PERFECT scenario for utilizing Christine's book (Please buy it if you haven't already. You'll find the advice you need in it.)
What you need to do is continue to give her space and time. Let her continue to sleep in the spare room. (Don't move out of the master bedroom; don't move out of the house.)
Don't talk about the marriage or the relationship with her, unless she initiates it. Then, just listen. Don't offer advice. You can say, "I'm sorry you feel that way. What can I do for you?"

The mood swings are ABSOLUTELY normal. (Haven't you been reading on here? That's par for the course.)
The blaming you (YOU make her life miserable; not "I'm miserable.") is textbook.

She ABSOLUTELY blames you for "the reason she can't have the life she wants."

When you say "She's just emotionally checked out with me and doesn't want to work on the marriage at all," that's also textbook. So don't push it. You say "I'm detaching and getting on with the kids and trying not to let her get to me even though my heart has broken."

That's what you should be doing! Yes, I know it's hard. It's also completely unfair, and not what you signed up for.
But if you can take it (and it will get WORSE before it gets better), you can probably outlast it.

What is NOT acceptable is if she wants to go meet with the OM (even if it's to "break up with him" -- don't fall for that one!!). It's not acceptable for her to meet up with him if he comes to visit her. These are all "deal-breakers." But I wouldn't necessarily bring them up unless you get an inkling that it is going to happen. (Or, if her behavior starts to change.) I also wouldn't put it past her to start looking for an OM that is closer to home. She's vulnerable now. But don't PUSH anything. Just watch for changes in behavior. (See Wekin's list of guidelines from "Not Just Friends" by Shirley Glass.)

I'd recommend a couple of reading materials (for YOU-- DO NOT TRY TO GET HER TO READ ANY OF THIS OR UNDERSTAND ANY OF IT):
-- Surviving Your Wife's Midlife Crisis (Christine's book)
-- Not Just Friends (Shirley Glass)
-- Private Lies (by Frank Pittman)
-- The Five Love Languages

In the meantime, take care of yourself. Pursue individual counseling if you can/need to. Engage in some hobbies/interests you enjoy (or some that you and the kids can do together). Know that this will likely bother her even more. She WANTS you to create conflict and drama for her. Don't fall for it.

Continue to ENGAGE with her, though. Non-relationship-focused activities (i.e., family nights, even date nights -- but don't call them that.) Surprise her (but not by BUYING gifts) -- instead, do little, thoughtful things for her. But DO NOT EXPECT anything from these gestures.
There will likely be lots more arguments and hurtful comments from her end of things. Do your best to let these flow off you, like water off a duck's back. Stay calm. Accept the blame ("I'm sorry your feelings were hurt by 'x'") but don't take it personally. That's just the nature of the beast (or the alien. *smile*).

Mostly, just stay out of the emotional tornado as much as you can. Protect yourself emotionally because this will go 1 of 2 ways:
• Either she will swirl up into full CRISIS mode and find a more geographically available OM, or
• Her tornado will peter out before she gets to that place.

Hang in there! And keep posting -- the guys on here have much greater insight into the situations you've faced and will face in the future. All I can provide is the perspective of a woman (not one whose been in MLC, fortunately), and a Bystander.

[Found]

Posted Re: My Alien is ready....
« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2009, 08:33:56 PM » by BYSTANDER
"
Here's my 2x4:

THIS IS NOT ABOUT YOU!!!!

I'll keep saying this until I'm blue in the face (I guess):

THERE WAS NOTHING YOU COULD HAVE DONE TO PREVENT THIS!!!

If I see another guy post, "If only..." or "I wish I had..." I will come after you with my 2x4 personally!

If the problem was YOU or YOUR RELATIONSHIP, she wouldn't be out the door. She'd work on the relationship.

No, (I'll say it again!) this is about HER.

She thinks she can outrun Father Time.

Lose some weight, get tan, get a tattoo, color your hair.
WHATEVER, LADY. Those wrinkles are still coming to get you ... so enjoy how you look NOW, because time waits for NO ONE. If you can't learn to like who you are on the INSIDE (remember, MLC is often about low self-esteem), you'll keep running ... until you realize that NO ONE IS CHASING YOU.

 

Seriously, guys. THIS IS NOT ABOUT YOU!!!!!!!!!!  "


Amen

[pexio]

Why does the STBX stop by?

This is actually very normal.

At a subconscious level, she knows that the relationship with the OM won't work. (After all, by your own telling, he's still attending church with his wife!) So she wants to keep holding on to YOU while she pursues him. These women LOVE attention ... and if she feels like she's losing yours, she wants to keep you sucked in! (That's also the point behind what I talked about on the other thread about when you get calls and text messages from your STBX/X when you've gone dark.)

You could point-blank ask, "Why are you here?" But you're not likely to get an honest answer. (Instead, she'll pout ... or, worse, turn this into an opportunity to crap all over you: "I'm just trying to get along with you for the sake of the kids. The least you could do is be NICE to me when I come over." Blah, blah, blah)

The thing to remember is, no matter how much "Hoovering" she is doing to try to keep SOME sort of connection with you (even if it's a NEGATIVE one ... i.e., fighting), as long as she is still with the OM, there's no hope for your marriage/relationship.

She's also likely feeling a LOT of guilt right now (especially after meeting with the social worker) and is hoping for some fireworks with you (bad ones, not good ones) to remind herself of "WHY SHE LEFT YOU IN THE FIRST PLACE."

The best thing you can do is just ignore her. I wouldn't even recommend placating her by actually talking with her when she follows you around to engage in small talk. I also wouldn't start a fight (i.e., "What, is your boyfriend with his real family tonight?") I'd just thank her when she compliments your cooking and then go and do something else. I'd recommend reading a book or doing some woodworking or helping D11 with her homework instead of something she can join in with (i.e., watching TV).

If she were an invited guest in your home, I'd expect you to entertain her, but it sounds like she invited herself over. And since she's not acting like your wife at the moment, there's no need to pay her much attention at all. If she says something, you can just comment about how "weird" it is to have her in your house and how uncomfortable it makes you feel. I might even take a newspaper and go lock myself in the bathroom for a while. (She's not going to follow you in there, I hope!)

It seems cold -- and probably to most guys on here, "counterproductive" ("She came over and spent time at the house! She must still care for me! It's a sign of hope!"). Believe me, she's made it clear she doesn't want a marriage/relationship with you ... and I don't think you need a friend like her right now ... so you don't need to be nice to her (I wouldn't be "mean" -- I'd be "indifferent").

Most likely, as I noted, her OM had other plans tonight. And women in MLC have their "weird meter" set to low, so they don't understand how strange it is (to you) that she is acting like nothing's the matter.