1 year anniversary of PA confirmation: Where I went wrong

[JoeP88]

Listen up newbs...

On this day 1 year ago today, I confronted my STBX w/ evidence of a PA. I figured she'd break down, cry, apologize, beg for forgiveness. No dice. OM was just a friend and she said we should divorce, she wanted to move out and be friends. There was no one else, nor would there be. She was finding herself I was told and she wanted to be on her own and make her own decisions and that I had known it was over. (no, I didnt). I broke down, almost threw up, cried, hyperventilated, begged and pleaded. I was 'shell shocked'. We had our 3rd MC session the next day. we never made it.

I missed my chance to save my marriage. I figured she'd snap out if it eventually and my appeasement efforts began. I was different.. 1 year later, on om3 - that obviously didnt happen, appeasement didnt work (because it never does) and I made all the classic mistakes and luckily found this place a few months later, but after she was long gone. sadly. I at least was able to save myself thanks to many of you. Learned about NC/detachment, got on meds and go to IC monthly now still.

A lot of you guys are coming here post speech, dazed and confused I'm sure, suspect the OM, looking for one...basically, you're at the beginning. A good place to be. I wish I had found the fine people here long ago and knew what I could do.

If I could turn back the clock I'd realize I had ONE shot at it and I'd have to do it right. She would get MY speech! I would have calmly presented her with the evidence I had. I would have had her bags packed in advance. I would have my cell phone out ready to call scumbag OM to come get her. I wouldnt have listened to her shit about finding herself and the OM is just a friend I'd have my speech prepared: "You cut off contact with the OM forever and commit to the marriage and IC. You're in or you're out. You make the decision NOW. you dont get to sleep on it, you dont get to phone a friend, you can't get back to me. In or out, right now"

If she was out, I'd give her her bags and call the OM to come get her. I'd inform her that I'll be calling MY OWN divorce lawyer the following morning. I'd calmly let her know that I'd be launching global thermal nuclear divorce warfare. OM would be dragged to court, the works. Then, I'd follow through with that. I'd let her know the consequences for choosing the OM. they would be grave and painful. Shock and awe guys. You must prepared to blow your marriage up. this is when you kill a fly with a sledge hammer.

and what would your wife do to you if you were running around? think about that..

Point is guys, I'm sitting here, horrible effing day for me thinking about that day one year ago and all that you read here about tough love, the 2x4s, the advice the vets here give you: TAKE IT and USE IT.

You can nip this in the bud NOW or you're going to wait years for the MLC to end if it does, and it'll be years.You'll be a mess, you might lose your kids, finances will be sucked dry, the future that you envisioned GONE and eventually you will hopefully move on with your life after experiencing more pain and hell than you can ever imagine.

I went from a young, successful poloraid family..A year since the PA, I was in foreclosure, still cant sleep that well at night, by the grace of God I still have my job...me and kids in IC. Im still on ADs. For a while I drank daily, but luckily I wised up after a costly DWI and night on a jail cell floor. (never really drank before this!!). Not to mention the financial ramifications - which at this point means nothing anymore to me (Im used to being broke now!) AND believe it or not, Im one of the luckier LBSs!! Many here have it way worse!


So, new guys, take your pick: Tough love or hell? man up and blow it up.



 

[mlcconfusion]

Joe

Interesting post as I sit here thinking this may the first day of PA for my alien.  She is in Europe with suspected OM's, yes more than 1 and they are brothers just to make it more interesting.  So they are 4000 miles away, I have no way to verify the activity and limited contact.  I can assure you I would love to blow someone up right now.  Your advice seems rock solid.  When she returns to the US there is going to be shock and awe, that message is loud and clear here.  I really like your comment no phone a friend, no sleep on it, you are in or out now.  I have another 10 days to go until I can deliver the message but I am ready.  It is time to take this by storm.  It sucks but that is reality.

[JoeP88]

MLCconfusion: Your sitch is a GIFT. You have time to plan, collect evidence, develop your speech and work on being Corleone, contact a lawyer, etc. 

Now, in my sitch, she denied the OM, wanted it to appear that it was a mutual decision. Naturally everyone in the family was like 'wtf is going on'  so she suggested we get together with our family and friends and let them know we mutually agreed on this decision and ask for them to support us and respect our decision. I shit you not. I of course said no, i couldnt do that.I pointed out that it was NOT my decision and she said 'well, you dont want to be with someone that doesnt want to be with you, do you?'  So therefore she considered it mutual.Followed by her spinning it, making ME look like the villian to everyone.

When you shock and awe - even if it leads to a divorce, there's no question who is divorcing who and why you are doing it. You are divorcing your wife because she's running around. its simple. You are in control. You get in front of the lies and you are not the bad guy. 

[Dontgiveup]

JoeP88

I don't think you missed your chance to save your marriage.  With the evidence of the affair (and the third OM), she is likely smack in the middle of her MLC.

In my opinion, what you are saying is that you didn't end the marriage on your terms.  The marriage itself is rarely "saveable" while our wives are in their MLC.  The one chance usually comes toward the end of the crisis.  I don't know if you'll want it when/if it comes, but your one chance may still be a couple of years down the road.

[Double Crossed]

Great post, JoeP88. So many things ring true here.

[JoeP88]

I getcha on the end...but, our marriage/relationship was over a long time ago due to the affair. If and when this ends, recon would be a whole different story.

I appeased. thought she'd snap out of it like she did her 1/4 life crisis. Had I blown up the bridge, she wouldnt have wiggled out of the marriage like she did. She'd be making a decision: marriage or OM. I let her go not knowing what else do to. I didnt make it black and white and now she can tell anyone she wants about the divorce. and in her sick mind, she believes it. I didnt make her see the reality that I hope she one days sees. someone really close to me basically let his W know the devastation she'd be facing if she continued on w/ OM. It shocked her, she saw the light, and they moved on together.

It worked for him with many here. I'd suggest tough love over what i did. I can not be married to this woman now or ever again after all this. So, yes, I did miss my chance.

[trying222]

There have been many great posts here very recently.  No offense to others, but this is the one EVERYONE here needs to heed.  Thanks Joe.

I am about to drift away from PP.  It's time for me.  Nearing 3 years since speech - I still like to read insightful posts and send good wishes to new guys - but Joe's post is so important.

When a woman you have been with for 20+ years can't touch you anymore, is traveling with co-workers or people she has told you she is interested in, needs space, shows the signs of dramatic personality change, etc., you are in big trouble.  The paradigm has shifted.  It is time to get into protect mode.

Read Joe's post again - then once more.  And if you think you are different, splash some cold water on your face and read it again.

You are not different.  Your wife is cheating.  She hates you.  She wants a new life.  Protect your money and your children and get the hell out.

I lost hundreds of thousands and should have gotten cash, maintenance, etc., but I was too hung up on my pride.

She is remarried to the OM - it was over the moment she said - I love you......but......

So read this!  I am not joking!  Take is seriously.  Your wife is likely having an affair.   What are you going to do?

T22

[Meloy711]

I agree with T22, and in addition to what has been said all the advise given is for YOU your protection and your children.  The changes you take... from being fit or being closer to God or whatever will turn you to being a new you is not for your wife or STBX. I just read this from another thread that Walter started and Pex was telling a story about his XMIL (MLC):

"As mentioned, in '85, XMIL is in her forties (single at the time) and becomes the OW to this guy she works with who ends up leaving his wife and two daughters for her (typical MLC).  Surprisingly, they've been together 24 years now - go figure."

What will you do if your X/STBX lasted 24 years with her OM?  Work on your changes as if they are no longer coming back, because in as much as all the MLC sites seem to say that they will eventually come out of their fog I'm starting to believe that they really don't when they have an OM.

[paulsc1]

I dont post on here much anymore but I do read quite a bit of what is posted. I have to agree there have been some great posts recently and this one can be added to the list.

However, Joe, dont regret not going Thermo Nuclear on day 1. Sure it might have made her stay but she might have left anyway. Lets just say going TN on her made her stay...is that what you would have wanted? Terrifying an already confused woman who is not in love with you, but in love with another, into staying? Can you image the battle you would have been up against? What if she stayed but just couldnt get the feeling back for you, couldnt do the work on herself and couldnt kick the OM addiction. Dont get me wrong, I'm not saying it wouldnt work because there are those on here that it has worked for .... but I'm sure they will confirm that the resulting battle was a nightmare and that struggle will continue for years. But I'm pretty sure that there are some (my X included) that would have gone anyway and probably with more bitterness and resentment than there is now. Any woman that is prepared to leave her children, her family and all her friends for the OM because of the Romatic Affair will IMO go whether you go TN or not.

At times I regret not adopting this approach 18 months ago as well. But when I look back I remember that I didnt want to force or scare my X to stay with me. Her feelings were hers and her choices were hers as well. Sure I told her that I would not leave the house, would not leave the kids and would not tolerate her being in the same house as me while pursuing her AR. She was as confused and as scared as I was but we both new the consequences of what she chose - I didnt need to go TN on her. The day she left I told her I loved her and that I hoped she found what she was looking for. It hass been posted on here somewhere recently that if you really love something/someone you have to be prepared to let it/them go.

I am now Divorced and my X has been living with the Om for over a year. They appear to be happy together and I'm pretty sure they too will end up marrying although the deep depression my X is in over having limited contact with kids will test their relationship to the max. The point is I really dont think in my case that going TN would hav emade a blind bit of difference because there was a Romantic Affair in play. In the absence of a RA then perhaps the TN approach might work.

I'm coming up to 20 months since the bomb and reading this post has made me realise that I dont have any regrets about what ive done (or not done) over the last 18 months. I loved her enough to let her go and if us getting back together is meant to be then life will find a way of making that happen. If not then so be it, the work I have done on myself over the last 18 months has prepared for me a wonderfull life with my kids, friends and family. Who knows - maybe another 20 years with someone even better than my X.

So yes go TN if you want, it might work...but it might not as well. Nothing is for sure in the world of MLC! For me, with the benefit of hindsight, I'm glad that the OM has all my X's problems to deal with rather than me. I'm one of the lucky ones though...I have my house and my kids and my pension just about in tact and I dont pay HER one penny in support.

Bystander says that we will all get a second chance! Some might get it by going TN on day one and some may have to wait years. For me ive stopped worrying about that .. if its going to happen it will happen. Right now I'm rather hoping it dosnt, at least until Ive had a bit more fun and she is comletely out of her MLC :-)

[Roger Wilco]

Great post Paul.  I don't regret much of what I did either.  Starting 13 months ago, I was certain of her infatuation with her professor no PA (it turned out there was a PA but it was an out of town thing left behind).  Mostly, she seemed very depressed and off mentally and I believed her when she said she didn't know why.  She refused to participate in my life or let me into hers, but she mostly just sat on the couch and studied.  I viewed her as having depression that I wanted to help her with and TN was not the answer.  Well, TN was the answer 3 months ago when she spent the night before/after our anniversary with a brand new man but that was about me living with myself.

I'm writing this because, over the last two weeks, I've noticed a sentiment that going nuclear will force rock bottom and bring them back.  There is no answer because you can't manipulate people into doing anything for the right reasons.  I think you must make this about yourself.  React in a way that allows you to live with yourself.  Just don't give her so much leeway that you can no longer respect yourself and certainly don't delude yourself into justifying her looking outside the marriage.

[Meloy711]

Bystander says that we will all get a second chance! Some might get it by going TN on day one and some may have to wait years. For me ive stopped worrying about that .. if its going to happen it will happen. Right now I'm rather hoping it dosnt, at least until Ive had a bit more fun and she is comletely out of her MLC :-)

Paul you took these words out of my mouth...  I believe that although MLC has a script I think the portion where we would be getting a second chance is where the MLCer does an ad lib.  This is the best approach "if it's going to happen it will happen". (would you say it's like "Acceptance" and "Letting go" rolled into one).

[paulsc1]

would you say it's like "Acceptance" and "Letting go" rolled into one

Kind of - yes! Actually letting go and acceptance happened for me quite quickly 2or3 months ago. Then the "if its going to happen it will happen" came very quickly afterwards.

Sure, there are still bad days when I actually find myself wanting Recon, but those days are rare now. Also occaionally I can let my compassion get the better of me and I get sucked back into her depression and suddenly find myself trying to fix what is not mine to fix. In general the roller coaster that we all found ourselves on for me is more like a train track with the odd hill to go over now.

Theres no silver bullet, no magic pill and what works for some will not work for others. Although every sitch appears the same leading up to the bomb, from there each sitch is unique and very different. We all just have to follow the advice to detach, go NC, work on us, define and enforce boundaries, work through the stages of grief, work towards letting go and acceptance and then find that place where moving on is natural and painless. Personally, I believe thats the place when the 2nd chance comes up and grabs you by the balls .... just when we are least expecting it - right when we arnt thinking about it anymore.

[pexio]

However, Joe, dont regret not going Thermo Nuclear on day 1. Sure it might have made her stay but she might have left anyway. Lets just say going TN on her made her stay...is that what you would have wanted? Terrifying an already confused woman who is not in love with you, but in love with another, into staying? Can you image the battle you would have been up against? What if she stayed but just couldnt get the feeling back for you, couldnt do the work on herself and couldnt kick the OM addiction.

Call me a naysayer, but I think that a lot of guys would welcome the opportunity for that battle, Paul.  If you fight and ultimately lose, at least you have fought.  Nobody wants to scare or guilt or FORCE their MLC'er wife to stay.  We only want them to choose: the family or the OM.  Make a choice and if it's us, then they must be and STAY "all in".  As BB said, fighting MLC is an ACTIVE battle.  The MLC'er must remain committed, continue to be "all in", stay off the OM drug, or it's out the door she goes.  But, if it was your son addicted to heroin, and not your wife addicted to the love of another, wouldn't you welcome any opportunity to influence your child to kick his habit, even as "terrified" and "confused" as he may be at first?  Wouldn't you want to DO something to disengage him from his destructive behavior?

Shock-and-awe or going thermonuclear is a technique that applies ONLY in certain situations.  There is a small window of opportunity in which it will work.  For most of us, it no longer applies because we learned too late or waited too long.  In my case, when I got the speech, my X already had a house rented to move into.  She had already planned her escape and going TN would have had no effect.  I would have had to go back in time 3 months before the speech for TN to work when she was still likely "on the fence".  Unfortunately, none us can go back.  There are a lucky few, though, who have an opportunity now and they should use it.

Busting the affair, cutting off the MLC'er emotionally-physically-financially, getting our legal ducks in a row, filing or agreeing to divorce are all things we do eventually.  TN is just doing these things all at once.  Yes, the OM is an addiction and the addict must be made to experience the consequences of their actions.  TN is just pulling away all of the safety nets at the same time if you have the opportunity.

It seems like we're debating whether tough love and the more extreme TN are foolproof ways of "getting our wives back".  They most assuredly are NOT.  We know there are no guarantees in that regard.  We can't control the choices our MLC'ers make.  Like everything else we preach around here, tough love and TN are something we do for US.  It's detachment in action to protect us from the pain that the MLC'er inflicts.  In the end, it's all about pain.  When a guy like me, or T, or pg, walter, jimbo, fitz or most any guy here writes a post like Joe did above, what we've said is that the pain grew too much to bear.  We did not ACT when we had the chance.  We did not distance ourselves from the damage.  We did not don our suit of armor soon enough to protect our hearts from slowly but surely hardening towards our MLC wives.  And so we have moved on.  And THAT is why you don't read more "save your marriage" success stories here or anywhere else.

I copied this post from an addict recovery site from a parent of an addict who practices tough love:

Today I live a happy, blessed, peaceful life, spiritually connected to God once again (after being mad at God for many years), and I find joy in every single day...in spite of the fact that my son is still lost in his addiction.

And BB related his experiences with his addict son.  A parent will always take back an addict child once he is clean and sober because a parent's love for a child is unconditional.  But a man's love for an MLC wife is not unconditional, is it?  Tough love is what we do to keep our love for our MLC wives alive.  If we don't, the love will die.

[Bystander]

Great post, Pexio.

Count me among the "What if?" crowd. There are two days on my "time machine" calendar related to my x-SIL's affair: The day she & the OM sat in my living room and told me they had "feelings" for each other (after the OM's then-girlfriend's teenage daughter found [in my x-SIL's words] "inappropriate" e-mail messages between them on the OM's computer) and "intervention" day, when I got a call from the OM's no-longer-girlfriend that the OM and my SIL were on the phone with each other (he was in her driveway at the time) after promising no contact. My brother was prepared to throw her out, but her parents & sisters convinced him to let her go home with one of them for one night (with yet another promise of no contact with the OM) ... but no real consequences. It just bought her more time because she was back home again the next night.

As Pex says, you only get ONE chance at shock & awe, and unfortunately, it's so early in the process that most guys don't know about Path Partners and don't take the opportunity. So, newbies, read this post carefully and understand that while TN (thermonuclear) might not SAVE your marriage, it can be the MOST IMPORTANT THING YOU DO to SAVE yourself. You put it all on the line for her and make the choice clear. It gives you an unmistakable roadmap for the future. She's either ALL IN or ALL OUT (no shades of gray) and if the answer isn't 100% unequivocal ALL IN, then you know the path you must take (and, interestingly enough, that path is MOST LIKELY to lead you to reconciliation, believe it or not ... of any of the paths offered).

Trying... you must check in with us at least every once in a while. You & I have a bet, and I have a couple more years left before I believe I'll be able to collect. Romantic affairs are fabulous in the beginning, but relationships that begin based on a lie slowly erode. 

[trying222]

I guess in hindsight - at least we all tried.  At least we all wanted what we thought would be best - saving our marriages, trying to hold our families together.  I think all of us held our heads high - tried to be men (and women) of high character.  It wasn't always easy.  Even at its lowest, I figured we would end up together.

But I also have few regrets about my actions pre-and post speech.  It was/is an event.  A biggie.  My words, my actions, they were simply noise that she ignored as she executed her escape.  Because my ex had a great career, just received a promotion, and her OM was also at least director level at same company, I had nothing other than taking my girls for a Thermo Nuclear option - and - she gladly gave away the girls-she needed free weekends to drive to OM's place in next state.  I had no leverage.  None.

My words to her the night I received the speech were - "well, I want you to be happy - even if it's not with me."  And I believe, like me, she is enjoying her life with new husband - they travel, go out, he seems interesting and nice, he is respectable so not a "loserboss" or trailer trash guy - he is attractive.  Good for her.  I hope they are married for 30 years.  I have left her (and him) completely alone - I never want anyone to say I was hanging on, hoovering, or trying to break them up.  I don't speak of her ever to the children, and they never even mentioned her wedding (where D19 sang I understand) to me.

You guys did your best - but for almost all - very little hope - she was already gone by the time you realized the depth of the issue(s) she was dealing with.  So we try to understand, examine, dissect, until like many of us old timers we simply don't have the energy, or, care anymore.  Like my divorced pastor in my divorce care class said - it's over.  You're divorced.  I won't forget that night.  It was like I finally came out of the fog - I think I was still delusional that somehow we would end up together.

So, Bystander - I have enough miles to fly to you and collect that drink.  I don't want a second chance.  I don't need a second chance.  She will never open the door to a second chance even at cordial friendship in my humble opinion.  She is living great with new hubby.  I am just someone she had children with - end of story.  We have not communicated in 4 months - not spoken on the phone for 2 years.  When we are together for a kid event, she won't look at me - we don't speak.

I had a great 23 year marriage to a wonderful gal - and am now just a crazy, single, dating, dad/uncle/brother/son/friend - to my circle.  It fits me just fine.

Gin and tonic.  Tall.  And keep em' coming.

T22